20th Pisces
Mar. 12th, 2025 10:15 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
crimsoncurrentAll 20th degree symbols address an extraordinary quickening, acceleration of development. Truly a remarkable set of symbols, the 20th degree tends to be characterizes by ease, genuis, creative flow. things happen in surprising ways... outside the realm of practical expectation.
Nikola Stojanovic’s Degree Theory: 20° Pisces
20° in General: The 20th degree corresponds to Scorpio (as Scorpio is the 8th sign, and the sequence repeats: 13° = Aries, 14° = Taurus, ..., 20° = Scorpio). Scorpio degrees (8° and 20°) are associated with intensity, transformation, secrets, power, jealousy, revenge, sexuality, and deep emotional or psychological themes. In Pisces, this Scorpio flavor adds a layer of intensity to Pisces’ dreamy, spiritual nature.
Specific Meaning: Stojanovic notably linked 20° across all signs to themes of jealousy and/or revenge, derived from patterns he observed in charts. In Pisces, this might manifest as hidden emotional undercurrents—perhaps a subtle, internalized struggle with envy or a karmic need to release vengeful impulses through compassion or spiritual surrender.
Interpretation for 20° Pisces: At 20° Pisces, you could see a blend of Pisces’ mysticism and Scorpio’s depth—think of a person or situation wrestling with profound emotional shadows, possibly using art, spirituality, or escapism to process jealousy or past betrayals. It’s less about overt action (Pisces softens Scorpio’s edge) and more about an inner transformation or reckoning.
Stojanovic’s approach is practical and anecdotal, not symbolic like the Sabians, so it’s less poetic but direct: 20° Pisces might highlight where someone feels intensely possessive or seeks redemption through Piscean means.
Marc Edmund Jones: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Marc Edmund Jones, with clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler, channeled the Sabian Symbols in 1925, assigning a unique image to each of the 360 degrees of the zodiac. Published in The Sabian Symbols in Astrology (1953), these are literal yet esoteric snapshots meant to evoke intuitive insight.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “A table set for an evening meal.”
Jones’s Interpretation: Jones saw this as a symbol of fulfillment, domesticity, and the promise of sustenance after a day’s labor. It’s about the comfort of routine, the reward of effort, and the quiet assurance of life’s continuity. In the context of Pisces (16°-30° falls under “Scene Twenty-Four: Perpetuation”), it reflects a collective or communal sense of security—society providing for its own.
Meaning: At 20° Pisces, this suggests a moment of pause and nourishment, both physical and spiritual. It’s less about struggle and more about trust in life’s flow, a Piscean faith that needs will be met. Jones emphasized the symbol’s simplicity: a table ready for dinner implies stability amid Pisces’ fluidity, perhaps a grounding point in an otherwise ethereal sign.
Application: If a planet is at 20° Pisces in a chart, Jones might say it points to an area where one finds (or seeks) reliable support—emotional, social, or even karmic—after navigating uncertainty.
Jones’s take is straightforward and optimistic, focusing on the symbol’s surface meaning without heavy elaboration, leaving room for personal intuition.
Dane Rudhyar: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Dane Rudhyar, a humanistic astrologer, took Jones’s Sabian Symbols and gave them deeper philosophical and psychological layers in An Astrological Mandala (1973). He saw the zodiac as a cyclical process of unfoldment, with each degree contributing to spiritual evolution.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “In the quiet of evening the farmer’s supper awaits him.”
(Note: Rudhyar slightly rephrased Jones’s “A table set for an evening meal” to emphasize the farmer and the evening, adding a personal, temporal nuance.)
Rudhyar’s Interpretation: Rudhyar frames this as “encompassing richness of experience whenever a particular ordeal is over.” He places it in “Scene Twenty-Three: The Span of Innocence” (Pisces 16°-20°), shifting slightly from Jones’s “Perpetuation” (16°-30°). For Rudhyar, 20° Pisces marks the end of a cycle—after toil (the farmer’s day), there’s rest, reward, and a return to simplicity. It’s a karmic release, a moment of peace before the zodiac resets with Aries.
Meaning: This degree symbolizes fulfillment through surrender to natural rhythms, a Piscean theme of dissolving into the whole. The farmer isn’t just eating; he’s reaping the fruits of his labor, reflecting Pisces’ spiritual harvest. Retrograde Saturn here might amplify this as a time to reflect on past efforts, finding closure or gratitude.
Application: In a natal chart, 20° Pisces could indicate where someone finds solace after struggle, or where they must trust in life’s provision. Rudhyar might see Saturn retrograde (June 29 - November 15, 2024) at this degree as a call to reassess what nourishes the soul, stripping away illusions.
Rudhyar’s take is poetic and cyclical, tying 20° Pisces to closure and renewal, with a mystical undertone fitting Saturn in Pisces’ introspective energy.
Martin Goldsmith: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Martin Goldsmith, in The Zodiac by Degrees (originally 2004, revised 2015), built on Jones and Rudhyar but refined the Sabian Symbols through extensive research, comparing them to real-life charts for accuracy. His interpretations are vivid, practical, and psychologically nuanced.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “A farmhouse table set with a hearty evening meal as twilight settles over the fields.”
(Goldsmith expands Jones’s image with sensory details—twilight, fields—enhancing the scene’s emotional weight.)
Goldsmith’s Interpretation: He describes this as “simple abundance; quiet satisfaction after a day’s work; trusting that life will provide; faith in the natural order; family traditions that give life meaning.” He also lists “shadow” traits: “taking things for granted; overeating or overindulgence as a substitute for emotional fulfillment.” Goldsmith ties it to examples like farmers, homemakers, or those who find joy in routine.
Meaning: At 20° Pisces, Goldsmith sees a blend of Pisces’ faith and Saturn’s grounding (especially retrograde). It’s about appreciating life’s basics—food, shelter, connection—while confronting any tendency to numb out or overlook deeper needs. Retrograde Saturn here might prompt a reevaluation of what truly sustains, stripping away excess.
Application: In a chart, 20° Pisces might show where someone seeks or builds stability through simplicity, or where they’re challenged to balance escapism with responsibility. Goldsmith’s version feels relatable, emphasizing tangible rewards in Pisces’ boundless sea.
Goldsmith’s approach is grounded yet imaginative, making 20° Pisces a degree of quiet strength and subtle lessons.
Synthesis: Saturn Retrograde at 20° Pisces (June 29, 2024)
Since your original question tied this to Saturn’s retrograde starting June 29, 2024 (at 19° Pisces 25', close to 20°), let’s consider how these interpretations intersect with that transit in the U.S. Sibley Chart or a personal context:
Degree Theory: Saturn at 20° Pisces might stir jealousy or revenge in national or personal spheres, tempered by Pisces’ compassion—perhaps a time of wrestling with power dynamics internally.
Jones: A table set suggests Saturn reinforcing stability, but retrograde delays the meal—reflecting, not consuming, the nation’s resources or identity.
Rudhyar: The farmer’s supper aligns with Saturn retrograde as a pause to digest past efforts, a karmic checkpoint for the U.S. or an individual.
Goldsmith: The hearty meal under twilight mirrors Saturn retrograde’s call to find sustenance in simplicity, reassessing what’s essential amid Pisces’ dissolution.
Each system offers a lens: Stojanovic’s is intense and psychological, Jones’s is literal and hopeful, Rudhyar’s is spiritual and cyclical, and Goldsmith’s is practical and textured. For the U.S. Sibley Chart (asked earlier), this might’ve played out in the 3rd house (communication, commerce), reflecting a national rethink of sustenance—literal (supply chains) or figurative (narratives)—during the 2024 election season. What do you think—does one resonate more with what you observed that year?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nikola Stojanovic’s Degree Theory: 20° Pisces
Interpretation: 20° corresponds to Scorpio, emphasizing intensity, transformation, secrets, and jealousy/revenge. Stojanovic linked it to dramatic shifts or emotional undercurrents.
BIDEN STEPS DOWN
Yes: The Scorpio theme of transformation fits a major life change like resigning—stepping down could be a “death” of his presidency, aligning with Scorpio’s regenerative energy. Age as the reason might mask deeper emotional or political pressures (e.g., party infighting, “secret” health struggles), which Scorpio degrees often hint at.
Maybe: Jealousy/revenge doesn’t directly scream “too old,” but if Biden felt pushed out by younger rivals (e.g., party members eyeing 2028) or harbored resentment over age critiques, it could subtly apply.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde intensifies internal processing—Biden might’ve wrestled with pride versus necessity, transforming his role from leader to elder statesman.
Fit: Moderately. It captures the gravity of the decision and possible hidden motives, but “too old” feels more pragmatic than Scorpio’s passion-driven tone.
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Marc Edmund Jones: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “A table set for an evening meal.”
Interpretation: Fulfillment, rest, and life’s continuity after effort—a promise of sustenance.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Stepping down due to age could reflect choosing rest after a long career (50+ years in politics). The “table set” suggests he’s earned his break—Saturn’s discipline rewarded with retirement. Pisces’ communal vibe might imply handing the table to the next generation.
Maybe: It’s less about struggle (age as a limit) and more about assurance, but Saturn retrograde could delay this “meal,” mirroring hesitation or public pressure before resigning.
Saturn Retrograde: The inward turn might mean reflecting on his legacy, ensuring the nation’s “table” is set before exiting—age forces the issue.
Fit: Strongly. The image of earned rest aligns with age-related retirement, though it’s gentler than the political drama of stepping down.
Dane Rudhyar: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “In the quiet of evening the farmer’s supper awaits him.”
Interpretation: Richness after ordeal, karmic closure, surrender to natural cycles—end of a phase.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Age as a natural limit fits Rudhyar’s cycle-ending theme—Biden’s “day” (presidency) is done, and supper awaits (retirement). Saturn opposing his natal Saturn (9° Gemini) is a half-return, a midlife-like reckoning at 81, urging closure. Pisces’ spiritual surrender could mean accepting mortality and stepping aside gracefully.
Maybe: The “ordeal” might be his presidency or health, not just age, but the quiet evening suits a dignified exit.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde emphasizes reflection—Biden reassessing his capacity, finding peace in letting go, a karmic harvest of his long service.
Fit: Very strongly. The farmer resting after toil mirrors an elder statesman bowing out due to time’s toll, with retrograde adding depth to the decision.
Martin Goldsmith: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “A farmhouse table set with a hearty evening meal as twilight settles over the fields.”
Interpretation: Simple abundance, satisfaction after work, faith in natural order; shadow of overindulgence or taking things for granted.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Twilight (late life) and a hearty meal (career rewards) fit age as the reason—Biden, at 81, opts for the comfort of retirement over pushing beyond his limits. Saturn’s discipline in Pisces might ground him in this choice, trusting the nation’s order to continue without him.
Maybe: The shadow—overstaying or ignoring limits—could’ve been the risk if he didn’t step down, making age a decisive factor to avoid that pitfall.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde prompts reevaluation—did he take his stamina for granted? Stepping down aligns with Saturn stripping away excess, focusing on essentials.
Fit: Strongly. The twilight imagery and satisfaction after labor resonate with age-related retirement, with retrograde refining the timing.
Broader Astrological Context
Biden’s Chart: Saturn at 19°-20° Pisces in his 3rd house (communication) might’ve amplified age-related critiques (e.g., speech stumbles), while opposing natal Saturn (9° Gemini) brought physical/mental limits to a head. The trine to his Scorpio stellium (Sun, Mercury, Venus) gave resilience to bow out with dignity.
U.S. Sibley Chart: In the 3rd house (communication, commerce), Saturn retrograde at 20° Pisces could reflect national discourse shifting—Biden’s exit due to age might’ve sparked debates about leadership vitality, aligning with the square to Mars (21° Gemini) and trine to the Cancer stellium (stability in transition).
Saturn Retrograde Timing: Stationing at 19° Pisces 25' on June 29, 2024, it hit 20° Pisces briefly before retrograding back, peaking its influence early in the period. A mid-2024 decision fits this introspective energy, especially pre-election (November 8, 2024).
Synthesis and Conclusion
Do these interpretations tally with Biden stepping down due to being “too old”?
Degree Theory (Stojanovic): Partially. Transformation fits, but jealousy/revenge feels off unless political betrayal (e.g., party pressure) lurks beneath “age.” It’s the weakest match.
Jones: Yes. Rest after effort aligns with age forcing retirement, though it lacks the drama of a presidency ending.
Rudhyar: Yes, strongly. Closure after ordeal and natural cycles scream “too old” as a karmic exit, amplified by retrograde reflection.
Goldsmith: Yes, strongly. Twilight and abundance after work mirror late-life retirement, with retrograde refining the choice to essentials.
Overall, Rudhyar and Goldsmith tally best—20° Pisces as a degree of earned rest, twilight, and surrender to time fits Biden citing age as a limit, with Saturn retrograde adding a reflective, karmic push. Jones supports this, while Stojanovic’s Scorpio intensity feels less direct unless hidden motives (beyond age) were at play. If Biden stepped down in mid-2024, these Sabian takes would frame it as a natural, Saturnian conclusion to a long career, not a defeat but a harvest. Does this ring true with how you envision that scenario?
explore Biden's natal chart
compare to Trump’s chart
Nikola Stojanovic’s Degree Theory: 20° Pisces
20° in General: The 20th degree corresponds to Scorpio (as Scorpio is the 8th sign, and the sequence repeats: 13° = Aries, 14° = Taurus, ..., 20° = Scorpio). Scorpio degrees (8° and 20°) are associated with intensity, transformation, secrets, power, jealousy, revenge, sexuality, and deep emotional or psychological themes. In Pisces, this Scorpio flavor adds a layer of intensity to Pisces’ dreamy, spiritual nature.
Specific Meaning: Stojanovic notably linked 20° across all signs to themes of jealousy and/or revenge, derived from patterns he observed in charts. In Pisces, this might manifest as hidden emotional undercurrents—perhaps a subtle, internalized struggle with envy or a karmic need to release vengeful impulses through compassion or spiritual surrender.
Interpretation for 20° Pisces: At 20° Pisces, you could see a blend of Pisces’ mysticism and Scorpio’s depth—think of a person or situation wrestling with profound emotional shadows, possibly using art, spirituality, or escapism to process jealousy or past betrayals. It’s less about overt action (Pisces softens Scorpio’s edge) and more about an inner transformation or reckoning.
Stojanovic’s approach is practical and anecdotal, not symbolic like the Sabians, so it’s less poetic but direct: 20° Pisces might highlight where someone feels intensely possessive or seeks redemption through Piscean means.
Marc Edmund Jones: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Marc Edmund Jones, with clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler, channeled the Sabian Symbols in 1925, assigning a unique image to each of the 360 degrees of the zodiac. Published in The Sabian Symbols in Astrology (1953), these are literal yet esoteric snapshots meant to evoke intuitive insight.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “A table set for an evening meal.”
Jones’s Interpretation: Jones saw this as a symbol of fulfillment, domesticity, and the promise of sustenance after a day’s labor. It’s about the comfort of routine, the reward of effort, and the quiet assurance of life’s continuity. In the context of Pisces (16°-30° falls under “Scene Twenty-Four: Perpetuation”), it reflects a collective or communal sense of security—society providing for its own.
Meaning: At 20° Pisces, this suggests a moment of pause and nourishment, both physical and spiritual. It’s less about struggle and more about trust in life’s flow, a Piscean faith that needs will be met. Jones emphasized the symbol’s simplicity: a table ready for dinner implies stability amid Pisces’ fluidity, perhaps a grounding point in an otherwise ethereal sign.
Application: If a planet is at 20° Pisces in a chart, Jones might say it points to an area where one finds (or seeks) reliable support—emotional, social, or even karmic—after navigating uncertainty.
Jones’s take is straightforward and optimistic, focusing on the symbol’s surface meaning without heavy elaboration, leaving room for personal intuition.
Dane Rudhyar: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Dane Rudhyar, a humanistic astrologer, took Jones’s Sabian Symbols and gave them deeper philosophical and psychological layers in An Astrological Mandala (1973). He saw the zodiac as a cyclical process of unfoldment, with each degree contributing to spiritual evolution.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “In the quiet of evening the farmer’s supper awaits him.”
(Note: Rudhyar slightly rephrased Jones’s “A table set for an evening meal” to emphasize the farmer and the evening, adding a personal, temporal nuance.)
Rudhyar’s Interpretation: Rudhyar frames this as “encompassing richness of experience whenever a particular ordeal is over.” He places it in “Scene Twenty-Three: The Span of Innocence” (Pisces 16°-20°), shifting slightly from Jones’s “Perpetuation” (16°-30°). For Rudhyar, 20° Pisces marks the end of a cycle—after toil (the farmer’s day), there’s rest, reward, and a return to simplicity. It’s a karmic release, a moment of peace before the zodiac resets with Aries.
Meaning: This degree symbolizes fulfillment through surrender to natural rhythms, a Piscean theme of dissolving into the whole. The farmer isn’t just eating; he’s reaping the fruits of his labor, reflecting Pisces’ spiritual harvest. Retrograde Saturn here might amplify this as a time to reflect on past efforts, finding closure or gratitude.
Application: In a natal chart, 20° Pisces could indicate where someone finds solace after struggle, or where they must trust in life’s provision. Rudhyar might see Saturn retrograde (June 29 - November 15, 2024) at this degree as a call to reassess what nourishes the soul, stripping away illusions.
Rudhyar’s take is poetic and cyclical, tying 20° Pisces to closure and renewal, with a mystical undertone fitting Saturn in Pisces’ introspective energy.
Martin Goldsmith: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Martin Goldsmith, in The Zodiac by Degrees (originally 2004, revised 2015), built on Jones and Rudhyar but refined the Sabian Symbols through extensive research, comparing them to real-life charts for accuracy. His interpretations are vivid, practical, and psychologically nuanced.
Symbol for 20° Pisces: “A farmhouse table set with a hearty evening meal as twilight settles over the fields.”
(Goldsmith expands Jones’s image with sensory details—twilight, fields—enhancing the scene’s emotional weight.)
Goldsmith’s Interpretation: He describes this as “simple abundance; quiet satisfaction after a day’s work; trusting that life will provide; faith in the natural order; family traditions that give life meaning.” He also lists “shadow” traits: “taking things for granted; overeating or overindulgence as a substitute for emotional fulfillment.” Goldsmith ties it to examples like farmers, homemakers, or those who find joy in routine.
Meaning: At 20° Pisces, Goldsmith sees a blend of Pisces’ faith and Saturn’s grounding (especially retrograde). It’s about appreciating life’s basics—food, shelter, connection—while confronting any tendency to numb out or overlook deeper needs. Retrograde Saturn here might prompt a reevaluation of what truly sustains, stripping away excess.
Application: In a chart, 20° Pisces might show where someone seeks or builds stability through simplicity, or where they’re challenged to balance escapism with responsibility. Goldsmith’s version feels relatable, emphasizing tangible rewards in Pisces’ boundless sea.
Goldsmith’s approach is grounded yet imaginative, making 20° Pisces a degree of quiet strength and subtle lessons.
Synthesis: Saturn Retrograde at 20° Pisces (June 29, 2024)
Since your original question tied this to Saturn’s retrograde starting June 29, 2024 (at 19° Pisces 25', close to 20°), let’s consider how these interpretations intersect with that transit in the U.S. Sibley Chart or a personal context:
Degree Theory: Saturn at 20° Pisces might stir jealousy or revenge in national or personal spheres, tempered by Pisces’ compassion—perhaps a time of wrestling with power dynamics internally.
Jones: A table set suggests Saturn reinforcing stability, but retrograde delays the meal—reflecting, not consuming, the nation’s resources or identity.
Rudhyar: The farmer’s supper aligns with Saturn retrograde as a pause to digest past efforts, a karmic checkpoint for the U.S. or an individual.
Goldsmith: The hearty meal under twilight mirrors Saturn retrograde’s call to find sustenance in simplicity, reassessing what’s essential amid Pisces’ dissolution.
Each system offers a lens: Stojanovic’s is intense and psychological, Jones’s is literal and hopeful, Rudhyar’s is spiritual and cyclical, and Goldsmith’s is practical and textured. For the U.S. Sibley Chart (asked earlier), this might’ve played out in the 3rd house (communication, commerce), reflecting a national rethink of sustenance—literal (supply chains) or figurative (narratives)—during the 2024 election season. What do you think—does one resonate more with what you observed that year?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nikola Stojanovic’s Degree Theory: 20° Pisces
Interpretation: 20° corresponds to Scorpio, emphasizing intensity, transformation, secrets, and jealousy/revenge. Stojanovic linked it to dramatic shifts or emotional undercurrents.
BIDEN STEPS DOWN
Yes: The Scorpio theme of transformation fits a major life change like resigning—stepping down could be a “death” of his presidency, aligning with Scorpio’s regenerative energy. Age as the reason might mask deeper emotional or political pressures (e.g., party infighting, “secret” health struggles), which Scorpio degrees often hint at.
Maybe: Jealousy/revenge doesn’t directly scream “too old,” but if Biden felt pushed out by younger rivals (e.g., party members eyeing 2028) or harbored resentment over age critiques, it could subtly apply.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde intensifies internal processing—Biden might’ve wrestled with pride versus necessity, transforming his role from leader to elder statesman.
Fit: Moderately. It captures the gravity of the decision and possible hidden motives, but “too old” feels more pragmatic than Scorpio’s passion-driven tone.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Edmund Jones: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “A table set for an evening meal.”
Interpretation: Fulfillment, rest, and life’s continuity after effort—a promise of sustenance.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Stepping down due to age could reflect choosing rest after a long career (50+ years in politics). The “table set” suggests he’s earned his break—Saturn’s discipline rewarded with retirement. Pisces’ communal vibe might imply handing the table to the next generation.
Maybe: It’s less about struggle (age as a limit) and more about assurance, but Saturn retrograde could delay this “meal,” mirroring hesitation or public pressure before resigning.
Saturn Retrograde: The inward turn might mean reflecting on his legacy, ensuring the nation’s “table” is set before exiting—age forces the issue.
Fit: Strongly. The image of earned rest aligns with age-related retirement, though it’s gentler than the political drama of stepping down.
Dane Rudhyar: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “In the quiet of evening the farmer’s supper awaits him.”
Interpretation: Richness after ordeal, karmic closure, surrender to natural cycles—end of a phase.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Age as a natural limit fits Rudhyar’s cycle-ending theme—Biden’s “day” (presidency) is done, and supper awaits (retirement). Saturn opposing his natal Saturn (9° Gemini) is a half-return, a midlife-like reckoning at 81, urging closure. Pisces’ spiritual surrender could mean accepting mortality and stepping aside gracefully.
Maybe: The “ordeal” might be his presidency or health, not just age, but the quiet evening suits a dignified exit.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde emphasizes reflection—Biden reassessing his capacity, finding peace in letting go, a karmic harvest of his long service.
Fit: Very strongly. The farmer resting after toil mirrors an elder statesman bowing out due to time’s toll, with retrograde adding depth to the decision.
Martin Goldsmith: Sabian Symbol for Pisces 20°
Symbol: “A farmhouse table set with a hearty evening meal as twilight settles over the fields.”
Interpretation: Simple abundance, satisfaction after work, faith in natural order; shadow of overindulgence or taking things for granted.
Tally with Biden Stepping Down:
Yes: Twilight (late life) and a hearty meal (career rewards) fit age as the reason—Biden, at 81, opts for the comfort of retirement over pushing beyond his limits. Saturn’s discipline in Pisces might ground him in this choice, trusting the nation’s order to continue without him.
Maybe: The shadow—overstaying or ignoring limits—could’ve been the risk if he didn’t step down, making age a decisive factor to avoid that pitfall.
Saturn Retrograde: Retrograde prompts reevaluation—did he take his stamina for granted? Stepping down aligns with Saturn stripping away excess, focusing on essentials.
Fit: Strongly. The twilight imagery and satisfaction after labor resonate with age-related retirement, with retrograde refining the timing.
Broader Astrological Context
Biden’s Chart: Saturn at 19°-20° Pisces in his 3rd house (communication) might’ve amplified age-related critiques (e.g., speech stumbles), while opposing natal Saturn (9° Gemini) brought physical/mental limits to a head. The trine to his Scorpio stellium (Sun, Mercury, Venus) gave resilience to bow out with dignity.
U.S. Sibley Chart: In the 3rd house (communication, commerce), Saturn retrograde at 20° Pisces could reflect national discourse shifting—Biden’s exit due to age might’ve sparked debates about leadership vitality, aligning with the square to Mars (21° Gemini) and trine to the Cancer stellium (stability in transition).
Saturn Retrograde Timing: Stationing at 19° Pisces 25' on June 29, 2024, it hit 20° Pisces briefly before retrograding back, peaking its influence early in the period. A mid-2024 decision fits this introspective energy, especially pre-election (November 8, 2024).
Synthesis and Conclusion
Do these interpretations tally with Biden stepping down due to being “too old”?
Degree Theory (Stojanovic): Partially. Transformation fits, but jealousy/revenge feels off unless political betrayal (e.g., party pressure) lurks beneath “age.” It’s the weakest match.
Jones: Yes. Rest after effort aligns with age forcing retirement, though it lacks the drama of a presidency ending.
Rudhyar: Yes, strongly. Closure after ordeal and natural cycles scream “too old” as a karmic exit, amplified by retrograde reflection.
Goldsmith: Yes, strongly. Twilight and abundance after work mirror late-life retirement, with retrograde refining the choice to essentials.
Overall, Rudhyar and Goldsmith tally best—20° Pisces as a degree of earned rest, twilight, and surrender to time fits Biden citing age as a limit, with Saturn retrograde adding a reflective, karmic push. Jones supports this, while Stojanovic’s Scorpio intensity feels less direct unless hidden motives (beyond age) were at play. If Biden stepped down in mid-2024, these Sabian takes would frame it as a natural, Saturnian conclusion to a long career, not a defeat but a harvest. Does this ring true with how you envision that scenario?
explore Biden's natal chart
compare to Trump’s chart