paul on jupiter dignity
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crimsoncurrentRe: Confronting the Bully Within Ourself
« Reply #142 - on: 06.12.2012 at 10:37 [UT+0] »Quote Quote from EJ53-2 on 01.12.2012 at 08:17 [UT+0]:
Sometime ago now, Zippy pointed out that (in her experience) a debilitated Jupiter CAN indicate a potential bully. This resonated strongly with me, because (as the avatar below my forum name shows) my Jupiter is seriously debilitated ... and it is currently being "activated" by both Progressed and Transitting Jupiter.
Bullying is an emotive topic, so an objective and rational discussion of it here might be difficult to achieve. For example, in my own case, I have bullied/do bully/will bully others ... but find it hard/impossible to accept that I might do so for any reason other than "the best interests of those being bullied". Hence, although looking (privately/honestly) at our own charts is the only way to identify and confront the "bully within", I'd like to focus here on the Forum Chart rather than that of myself and/or any specfic individual(s).
Whilst I know others here will strongly disagree with me, I believe that bullying behaviour is part of this forum's culture. And, if it is, I'd expect any relevant types of bullying behaviour to show up in the chart (posted below) ... perhaps along the lines indicated by Donna Cunningham at http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/pluto-and-bullying-how-to-recognize-an d-deal-with-it/
Is anyone interested in exploring this further? ... Or, is it best left hidden under the flat-rock of our cyberworld Garden of Eden?
I disagree that Jupiter deblitated in particular demonstrates bullying. Also when you say debilitated I'm not clear what you mean because Jupiter is of course domiciled here and in sect. I assume you mean by aspect but this isn't clear?
I think it would be much better to cut tot he chase rather than dancing around one particular planetary placement.
From an astrological point of view bullying occurs when we have a planet, or set of planets, which are, normally, stressed or afflicted in some way, and through which we attempt to project our distaste for those significations onto other people so as to disassociate with them but also so as to meet them externally to ourselves in an attempt to 'fix' them or 'work with them'.
Jupiter is not particularly special to that. Any stressed/afflicted planet or, more often, planetary aspects (often squares, more often oppositions, alarmingly frequently t-squares) will serve. In addition, any planets found on the angles which are not well integrated (often the 7th house) are ripe for similar projections which may lead to bullying.
EJ seeing as you use your own chart, let me demonstrate a likely example.
Angular planets include Saturn and Mars. They are on the first-seventh axis and occur by opposition so very ready for projection, particularly if we dislike or disassociate from their negative timbre. They are both malefics and neither is in dignity. In fact Saturn is out of dignity in Leo but is at least part of the sect of the chart.
Saturn is therefore afflicted.
Saturn afflicted in the first speaks of issues pertaining to boundaries and authority figures and as it rules the 7th and aspects a planet in the 7th it pertains to, in particular, our relationships and interactions with others. When saturn is in the first, regardless of dignity, we are sensitive to our environment and automatically perceive danger that we need shielding from (depending on other chart factors). We are sensitive to criticism because we so frequently criticise ourselves. Sometimes this can manifest with skin or bone/teeth problems, particularly, in my experience, dry skin or eczema or dandruff or psoriasis.
Mars in the seventh contrary to sect suggests an automatic association with other people and their being aggressive - relationships are a likely stage for this complex to act out upon. We may have fiery and tempestuous relationships or project our own associations that relationships lead to stress and arguments too frequently.
The two combined tell a story of expectation for other people to criticise us and for being argumentative and aggressive and it confirms what we always 'knew' all along "Nobody understands me, I need to keep up a strong barrier because people are forever out to hurt me or attack me".
Saturn readily receives Mars, lord of the tenth by several dignities, and so the sense of fraying boundaries encourages and works harmoniously with expectations of aggression from others. The dynamic may play out not just in relationships, but also in work, almost certainly with an authority figure.
Now in addition to this, the complex is made broader by the inclusion of Jupiter. Not just because Jupiter is out of dignity, which it is not, but because the two malefics at work here are aspecting it. We can broaden our understanding of this complex were we to include it, but we may also recognise that in this aspect lies also our own saving grace as we have a well dignified benefic aspecting by trine and sextile and so offering a better 'route' between the planets were we to develop it.
So what would be bullying here? Nothing other than the expectation that other people should carry this burden on our behalf and indeed loading others with these expectations. Rather than own this mars, perhaps we're projecting it to others and bouncing off them to 'prove' to ourselves that they are indeed attacking us (saturn in leo in first).
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« Reply #142 - on: 06.12.2012 at 10:37 [UT+0] »Quote Quote from EJ53-2 on 01.12.2012 at 08:17 [UT+0]:
Sometime ago now, Zippy pointed out that (in her experience) a debilitated Jupiter CAN indicate a potential bully. This resonated strongly with me, because (as the avatar below my forum name shows) my Jupiter is seriously debilitated ... and it is currently being "activated" by both Progressed and Transitting Jupiter.
Bullying is an emotive topic, so an objective and rational discussion of it here might be difficult to achieve. For example, in my own case, I have bullied/do bully/will bully others ... but find it hard/impossible to accept that I might do so for any reason other than "the best interests of those being bullied". Hence, although looking (privately/honestly) at our own charts is the only way to identify and confront the "bully within", I'd like to focus here on the Forum Chart rather than that of myself and/or any specfic individual(s).
Whilst I know others here will strongly disagree with me, I believe that bullying behaviour is part of this forum's culture. And, if it is, I'd expect any relevant types of bullying behaviour to show up in the chart (posted below) ... perhaps along the lines indicated by Donna Cunningham at http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/pluto-and-bullying-how-to-recognize-an d-deal-with-it/
Is anyone interested in exploring this further? ... Or, is it best left hidden under the flat-rock of our cyberworld Garden of Eden?
I disagree that Jupiter deblitated in particular demonstrates bullying. Also when you say debilitated I'm not clear what you mean because Jupiter is of course domiciled here and in sect. I assume you mean by aspect but this isn't clear?
I think it would be much better to cut tot he chase rather than dancing around one particular planetary placement.
From an astrological point of view bullying occurs when we have a planet, or set of planets, which are, normally, stressed or afflicted in some way, and through which we attempt to project our distaste for those significations onto other people so as to disassociate with them but also so as to meet them externally to ourselves in an attempt to 'fix' them or 'work with them'.
Jupiter is not particularly special to that. Any stressed/afflicted planet or, more often, planetary aspects (often squares, more often oppositions, alarmingly frequently t-squares) will serve. In addition, any planets found on the angles which are not well integrated (often the 7th house) are ripe for similar projections which may lead to bullying.
EJ seeing as you use your own chart, let me demonstrate a likely example.
Angular planets include Saturn and Mars. They are on the first-seventh axis and occur by opposition so very ready for projection, particularly if we dislike or disassociate from their negative timbre. They are both malefics and neither is in dignity. In fact Saturn is out of dignity in Leo but is at least part of the sect of the chart.
Saturn is therefore afflicted.
Saturn afflicted in the first speaks of issues pertaining to boundaries and authority figures and as it rules the 7th and aspects a planet in the 7th it pertains to, in particular, our relationships and interactions with others. When saturn is in the first, regardless of dignity, we are sensitive to our environment and automatically perceive danger that we need shielding from (depending on other chart factors). We are sensitive to criticism because we so frequently criticise ourselves. Sometimes this can manifest with skin or bone/teeth problems, particularly, in my experience, dry skin or eczema or dandruff or psoriasis.
Mars in the seventh contrary to sect suggests an automatic association with other people and their being aggressive - relationships are a likely stage for this complex to act out upon. We may have fiery and tempestuous relationships or project our own associations that relationships lead to stress and arguments too frequently.
The two combined tell a story of expectation for other people to criticise us and for being argumentative and aggressive and it confirms what we always 'knew' all along "Nobody understands me, I need to keep up a strong barrier because people are forever out to hurt me or attack me".
Saturn readily receives Mars, lord of the tenth by several dignities, and so the sense of fraying boundaries encourages and works harmoniously with expectations of aggression from others. The dynamic may play out not just in relationships, but also in work, almost certainly with an authority figure.
Now in addition to this, the complex is made broader by the inclusion of Jupiter. Not just because Jupiter is out of dignity, which it is not, but because the two malefics at work here are aspecting it. We can broaden our understanding of this complex were we to include it, but we may also recognise that in this aspect lies also our own saving grace as we have a well dignified benefic aspecting by trine and sextile and so offering a better 'route' between the planets were we to develop it.
So what would be bullying here? Nothing other than the expectation that other people should carry this burden on our behalf and indeed loading others with these expectations. Rather than own this mars, perhaps we're projecting it to others and bouncing off them to 'prove' to ourselves that they are indeed attacking us (saturn in leo in first).
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