crimsoncurrent

I was wondering if you could give me and other's the "run down" on Bacchus 2063-- its been a topic a while back on one of the various threads, but one spacific question:

What is the main difference which seperates Bacchus from Pan?

My intuition tells me that Pan is just natural at what he does, and Bacchus is divinely insane..

Adding to this I noticed a while back in my massive amount of 5th house asteroids an interesting group around my South Node, a conjunction of Bacchus, Terpsichore, and Sappho (with Erato in the 11th degree in Libra in some small influence to the South Node at 14 degrees Libra)

In the chart of one of my musical mentor's Pete Shelley one can find Bacchus and Sappho in close conjunction in his 5th house in Aquarius.. but what does that mean about creativity?

Just wondering about that; I have been very inspired by some of the questions involving the muses, Pan, and Chiron, but sadly the spacifics do not exactly apply, but its nice to read.

Take care all,

Dec 14, 2004 at 10:12pm Post OptionsPost by Kim Falconer on Dec 14, 2004 at 10:12pm
The Romans loved Bacchus! He was considered an ultimate deity, the recipient of highest reverence. The Bacchanalia, his festive celebration, consisted of decadent eating, drinking, sex and total abandon. He knew how to cut loose. After all, he was the son of Zeus and raised by the Nysaean nymphs.

Bacchus, although the Roman name for the Greek Dionysus, is somewhat less “spiritual” in nature than his predecessor. Dionysus was like a dark Christ figure, driven mad by Hera and offering redemption through ecstasy. Bacchus is not dismembered and resurrected as Dionysus, though he is mad as well. Bacchus is more about pleasure through excess than redemption through excess…if that makes sense.

Dionysus showed mortals how to express their passions through mania (passionate outpouring as opposed to clinical madness).

Bacchus showed mortals how to cultivate fruit trees and grapes and turn them into wine. He is a god of vegetation, the vineyard and the wine itself.

How is he different from Pan?

Pan, for one, is much older. He is the great ALL. He is wild in nature and does not cultivate anything save perhaps an extremely healthy libido.

He shows mortals the realm of the senses, taste, touch, smell, sound by exploration in the body—with the body. He is extremely physical.

Bacchus (and Dionysus) are more about escape from the body and the logic of routine into the realm of ecstasy, passion though vision and distortion (drugs and alcohol). I wonder where Timothy Leary’s Bacchus & Dionysus was…

What about creativity? My friend Zane Stein says this:

“There is another side to Bacchus, though. I have also found it prominent in the charts of a number of truly artistic individuals who get totally immersed in their work. These people seem to become one with the creative process, losing themselves and the world while they are painting, composing or whatever.”

www.geocities.com/SoHo/7969/bacchus.htm
Does this make sense?


I get the idea that Pan is an accute awareness to things around, a sensitivity to the environment around one's self, which could be the reason I have such sympathy for animals. (notice my husband has Pan strongly too and our comp has Pan in the first house.)

But that Bacchus thing, interesting and inspired but mostly seen as avoiding the real for the imagined, which is not bad (12 house also seems to be that area) but it can lead to not being aware of the body, and taking the body for granted, (like with those of us who don't eat while inspired or totally deny yourself in a truely work-aholic fashion those things your body cries for.)


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I think that is a good point, about Pan’s awareness of the environment. He not only senses everything around him, he participates! It is like the meeting of two animals in the woods. All their senses tell them of the other…and then they fight, or play or mate or hunt…they participate, they connect. I think Pan is something like this. He also taught…mostly sexual arts but also music and divination!

Bacchus and Dionysus may get so caught up in the creation, or the redemption or the spiritual participation that they neglect the body…though the senses are still very much involved. The ecstasy they offer is through the physical experience of pleasure and indulgence so that the body may be transcended, though it starts there.

Thanks for your comments.

Kim :D
'Follow your bliss and doors will open where once there were only walls.' Joseph Campbell

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Mar 13, 2005 at 8:57am Post OptionsPost by svenskasfinx on Mar 13, 2005 at 8:57am
Hej everyone!

I just noticed yesterday a transit to my 7th house cusp of asteroid (2063) Bacchus.

How is this acting in relation to my physical nature, and my long term relationships? Well I've been feeling an urge to seek enjoyment in alcohol!!! I have never really been so interested in drinking anything until now..but it was after I had Pernod, I finally discovered a drink I actually liked!

Not that I sought out to get drunk or anything, I was just amazed at the "euphoria" I felt for a short while, and it does tend, just like Neptune, to "desolve" barriers and boarders between people. (needless to say I've still not tried Absinthe yet but I'm trying to locate a good one that is under 60% (thus being legal in this country because anything over that is illegal, but the absinthe itself is totally legal here)

I also get the feeling my nerves are more "tuned toward pleasure" as well.

Just an observation, nothing to be alarmed about, but it is very much a good surprise!

Anyone else notice things happening with a Bacchus transit to a major point in their chart? Just curious.. here :)

take care,

svenskasfinx

Johnny Rachy: Howard, why is music so great?

Howard Devoto: It's the closest mathematics gets to directly addressing our hearts.
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My natal Bacchus is 6 degrees Scorpio, so it looks like Eros is currently conjuncting it. I did spend the weekend with friends out on the town, and there was a good bit of Bacchus juice induldged in by all! The energy was very electric and I felt so alive and especially good.

I am experiencing a lot of energy in that area of my chart right now; as I mentioned in another post, this is the placement of my midheaven.

He is transiting my twefth house now, and squaring my Moon. I'm not sure what the effect is - something to think about.

Bye for now,

Bridget Marie
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May 4, 2006 at 5:55am Post OptionsPost by shizane85 on May 4, 2006 at 5:55am
I have a question. If my dionysus is in aries and my bacchus is in scorpio, what does it mean? I drink, but not a lot. I've experimented with drugs, but Im clean now. Thanks.



I just realised I had a lot about Bacchus in the Ult.Ast.Book which I bought ages ago and he relates Bacchus to Tantra with the B orgies as an intermediate stage Now that makes sense to me as with Bac/Saph/Mars/etc etc in Gemini in 1st I did a course for some time that I later found out was based on Tantric principles and I took to it like a duck to water It was working in groups and pairs on our bodies in a very meditative non sexual way-on acu points in certain ways and we ended up in total bliss every day Meditation in twos or groups is so much easier to maintain as you do not want to spoil the other person's experience by giving up ...... And by drugs seem so boring and alcohol so crude And sex simply more of the same bliss if one had a partner at the time Hail Bacchus



Thank you for this contribution on Bacchus-

I get the impression this is a key to something about the lacking of will to do drugs ever with me, although I love the altering perceptions of sex between "commited parties", when it works out correctly, it is the divine bliss needed to get though crisis, perhaps an escapist crutch but still, all about a certain energy tapped into which is to be "shared". (I have Bacchus conjunct Sappho, and Terpsicore as well as the south node of the moon in the 5th house)... it is certainly true that I can see how I can take my creative energies and give them away to someone else to avoid the need for painting, but without a close partnership, it turns explosive, and almost into a mania where I'm painting in the middle of the night, not sleeping, not eating, and totally neglecting myself.

I think though I can say it is a combination of the Neptune(conjunct Iccarus) in the 6th with a 6th house ruled by Pluto that doubles up on this theme, the sacrifice of the body for "work" or "intensive physical/emotional/spiritual/sexual needs" (my Pluto is conjunct the Moon in the 4th house)

Bacchus seems to focus its needs toward 5th house areas, and I know one other person who has the Bacchus/Sappho combination in the 5th and he is pretty much known for not only his creativity, but a certain joyful drinking :o; I hope that he uses that energy to a better purpose rather than destroying his health, which he must do on those long tours of playing shows and drinking heavily EVERY night.

Thanks for the insights that everyone has come up with on this thread-

svenskasfinx
Last Edit: May 28, 2006 at 6:53am by svenskasfinx
Johnny Rachy: Howard, why is music so great?

Howard Devoto: It's the closest mathematics gets to directly addressing our hearts.
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Jun 2, 2006 at 12:24am Post OptionsPost by blueorchids on Jun 2, 2006 at 12:24am
So interesting Sven, I do wonder how BACCHUS might relate to alcohol abstinence. I have always had a severe adversion to alcohol and drugs of any kind. The last time I tasted alcohol was during the champagne toast at my wedding 15 years ago. I have also never done any drugs, not even marijuana, despite a stint of living in Santa Cruz California where drugs were plentiful and much of the good company under the influence of something. I always joked to my non and using friends that my personality was completely out of control, wacky and intense enough without additional influences.

I checked my BACCHUS, Humorously enough, it is in my 8th House and YES!!! tightly oppsing my 2nd house Capricorn Saturn & Vesta! Bacchus is 17 Cancer; Saturn and Vesta are 17 Capricorn and POF is 22 Cap. I aslo had a secret fear that alcohol and drug would remove my good girl Catholic virgin patina. Well there you have it!
Last Edit: Jun 2, 2006 at 12:25am by blueorchids
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Jun 5, 2006 at 5:57pm Post OptionsPost by svenskasfinx on Jun 5, 2006 at 5:57pm
blueorchids said:
So interesting Sven, I do wonder how BACCHUS might relate to alcohol abstinence. I have always had a severe adversion to alcohol and drugs of any kind. The last time I tasted alcohol was during the champagne toast at my wedding 15 years ago. I have also never done any drugs, not even marijuana, despite a stint of living in Santa Cruz California where drugs were plentiful and much of the good company under the influence of something. I always joked to my non and using friends that my personality was completely out of control, wacky and intense enough without additional influences.

I checked my BACCHUS, Humorously enough, it is in my 8th House and YES!!! tightly oppsing my 2nd house Capricorn Saturn & Vesta! Bacchus is 17 Cancer; Saturn and Vesta are 17 Capricorn and POF is 22 Cap. I aslo had a secret fear that alcohol and drug would remove my good girl Catholic virgin patina. Well there you have it!


Yeah I have been totally (up until my 26th birthday) alcohol-free and I can still only count the numbers of times I've been "drunk" on one hand, although I thought last year that was going to change. Strangely enough it was a transit from Bacchus that gave me an urge to try Abstithe, and it was very good.

I still don't really drink though, I think I had a glass of wine with my husband when he opened a bottle but that was last August.

Sometimes I have a taste for it, and sometimes I don't but I can be escapist without alcohol and that is probably the reason why I don't do it much.. and I recall the first time I did have 3 glasses of Champange at a wedding in Chicago, it was the very first time I felt "drunk" and then I knew it, but my friends said, "pish, spending money on alcohol for you is a waste because you are the very same as if you are drunk.." :P

Even still I shared a glass of Champange with my favorite band :)

oh well.