crimsoncurrent | Entries tagged with hours

The second item is presented because there is very little on the
planetary hours in English astrological literature. The subject has
for a long time been shrouded in mystery, originally having been
part of the Art's practice which bordered on alchemy and magic.
There is no doubt in my mind that the planetary hours are both
useable and valuable. I cannot say how many times I have seen
disagreements arise in Mars' hour or reconciliation occur in
Venus' or Jupiter's. Venus' hour is outstanding for all pleasurable
activities and for anything connected with sex and love. I have
noted that Mercury's hour is dangerous from the point of view of
theft and mugging for Mercury is both the god of business and of
thieves. Sometimes, the impulse arises in Mercury's hour, but the
act is committed in the following hour, Jupiter's. Such is the
practical insight that observation of times, in this case hours, can
give.
Bethen's piece on the hours is also valuable because it is laid out
in such a way that one can move from a study of the hours to the
rudiments of electional astrology. After giving the things, which
the hours are good or bad for, he then relates this to the elemental
nature of the sign rising at the same time. Thus one begins by
learning about the immediate changes in the surrounding world
and then is taken to a place where he can begin to make use of
this insight. The entire text is very basic but it is valuable for just
this reason. After one has learned that the hours and risings are
real one can move into more involved presentations such as
Bonatti's Eighth Tractate 51 or Lilly's Introduction to Astrology 52 or
any of the better modern books on electional astrology 53.
Unfortunately I do not know who this Bethen was. His little work
was appended to the end of Abano's translation of Ibn Ezra's
works and may have been in the manuscript of Ibn Ezra, which
he worked with. He seems to have been a competent astrologer
with a knack for succinct straightforward presentation and clarity.
51 Liber astronomiae Tractatus octavus
52 Being the first book of William Lily’s Christian Astrology 1647, London. Copies
of Lilly’s work can be found at www.horary-astrology.com or from the archivist
at publications@new-library.com
53 See, for example, Vivian Robson’s Electional Astrology, 1937 London. If you
are unable to get a copy then email publications@new-library.com
The third item is Ibn Ezra's a paraphrase of instructions for
identifying the Almutem or Ruler of the Chart based upon a
comparison of Henry Bate’s translation (Latin) of De Nativitatibus
and Peter of Abano's translation (Latin) of the same work.
The question of the true ruler of the chart has been discussed in
several places within the last few years and there has been, it
seems, recognition that the ruler of the ascendant is not always
sufficient as an indicator of the native's physiognomy and soul
qualities. Indeed to attempt to make it so is to place more upon it
than it was intended to take. The ascendant represents the native's
physical body and instincts. In so far as these determine
personality, the ascendant represents these too. The ruler of the
ascendant can often significantly modify the appearance of the
native depending upon its own position by sign and its aspects
and as we tend to become more like the ruler as time goes on, it is

Negative Manifestations: Kientz's writings, such as her article on financial astrology, note Ceres's "fury" when sustainability is violated, which could extend to nationalist contexts where nurturing becomes exclusionary. In Nazi charts, Ceres's prominence might amplify traits like manipulative control (e.g., Goebbels's propaganda), neglect of universal nurturing (e.g., Globocnik's extermination camps), and emotional extremes fueling fanatical nationalism (e.g., Freisler's zeal).

Connection to Love of One's Country

Ceres's protective and nurturing qualities could extend to patriotic sentiments, such as pride in one's homeland or cultural heritage. For example, Ceres in Taurus or Cancer might emphasize agricultural self-sufficiency or cultural preservation, reflecting a positive love of country. However, the user's focus on nationalism, particularly in the Nazi context, suggests Kientz's connection leans toward the negative, extreme manifestation rather than general patriotism.

Positive Aspect: Kientz might see Ceres as symbolizing a nurturing love for one's country, promoting policies that protect national identity or resources. This aligns with Ceres's role in sustaining life, extended to collective well-being.

Negative Aspect: Given the Nazi context, Kientz's connection likely emphasizes how Ceres's energy, when distorted, can lead to hyper-nationalism, xenophobia, or control, as seen in the regime's actions. This is consistent with her view of Ceres's negatives, such as grief-driven retribution or manipulative control, which can turn love of country into destructive ideology.

Mars Planetary Hour: The Mars hour amplifies Ceres's control or retribution, aligning with the debris analysis's "deliberate dive,"

Based on the user's statement and Kientz's framework, she connected Ceres to nationalism, particularly in Nazi contexts, reflecting its role in collective identity and protection, with negatives like destructive grief and control. While "love of one's country" fits within this, the focus is on extreme nationalism, adding controversy due to historical sensitivity.
Connection to Nationalism
Connection to Love of Country

Mythological Basis
Nurturing homeland, collective identity
Protective pride in cultural heritage

Positive Manifestation
Unity, resource protection
Patriotic nurturing, sustainability

Negative Manifestation
Exclusion, hyper-nationalism, control
Distorted patriotism, manipulative policies

Nazi Context
Prominent in charts, destructive ideologies
Speculative, tied to extreme nationalism

Sue Kientz’s Connection of Ceres to Nationalism

Sue Kientz, in her work (More Plutos, Astrology News Service articles), elevates Ceres to a dwarf planet with transformative power akin to Pluto, emphasizing themes of nurturing, loss, grief, control, and sustainability. Her claim that Ceres is connected to nationalism likely stems from its mythological and astrological roles as the goddess of agriculture and motherly care, extended to collective identity and protection of a “homeland” or cultural heritage. Below, I’ll explore this connection, focusing on Ceres’s negative aspects in the context of nationalism, particularly as it relates to her observation about Nazi members’ charts.

Ceres and Nationalism

Mythological Basis: Ceres (Roman equivalent of Demeter) governs agriculture, fertility, and the nurturing of life, symbolizing the sustenance of a community or nation. Nationalism, as a collective identity tied to land, culture, or people, can be seen as an extension of Ceres’s protective, nurturing energy. Kientz likely views Ceres’s prominence in charts as reflecting a drive to “nurture” a nation, which can manifest positively (e.g., fostering unity) or negatively (e.g., exclusionary or destructive ideologies)
.
Positive Nationalism: Ceres in a chart might inspire pride in one’s homeland, cultural heritage, or communal sustenance, promoting policies that protect resources or national identity. For example, Ceres in Taurus or Cancer could emphasize agricultural self-sufficiency or cultural preservation.
Negative Nationalism (Kientz’s Focus): When distorted, Ceres’s nurturing becomes possessive, exclusionary, or aggressive, leading to hyper-nationalism, xenophobia, or control over a nation’s “identity.” Kientz’s claim about Nazi members’ charts suggests Ceres’s prominence amplified these negative traits, aligning with the regime’s extreme nationalist ideology.

Negative Aspects of Ceres in Nationalism (Nazi Context)

Kientz’s observation that Ceres was prominent in Nazi members’ charts likely points to its negative manifestations in the context of nationalism:

Destructive Nationalism (Grief-Driven Exclusion):Description: Kientz links Ceres to grief and loss (e.g., Persephone’s abduction), which can manifest as withholding nurturing or punishing perceived threats. In nationalism, this becomes a drive to “protect” the nation by excluding or destroying “outsiders,” as seen in Nazi policies like racial purity and the Holocaust.
Nazi Example: Heinrich Himmler (SS leader, birth data: October 7, 1900), with a hypothetical Ceres in Scorpio conjunct Pluto, might reflect intense nationalism, “nurturing” the Aryan ideal by eliminating others, causing catastrophic loss. Kientz’s analysis likely highlights such placements in charts of figures like Himmler or Joseph Goebbels (propaganda minister, October 29, 1897), where Ceres’s grief fuels destructive exclusion.
Mechanism: Ceres’s prominence (e.g., angular, conjunct Sun/Moon) amplifies a need to control the nation’s identity, turning nurturing into aggression.

Control and Manipulation of National Identity:

Description: Kientz notes Ceres’s role in power struggles and negotiation, which can become manipulative when nurturing is thwarted. In nationalism, this manifests as controlling narratives or policies to enforce a singular national identity, often through propaganda or force.
Nazi Example: Goebbels’s propaganda machine manipulated German identity, promoting a nationalist “harvest” of unity while vilifying minorities. A prominent Ceres (e.g., in Libra, aspecting Mercury) might reflect this manipulative control, aligning with Kientz’s view of Ceres’s fury when trust is betrayed.
Mechanism: Ceres in hard aspects (e.g., square Mars or Pluto) could drive obsessive control over a nation’s image, as seen in Nazi propaganda films or rallies.

Neglect of Universal Nurturing:

Description: Kientz emphasizes Ceres’s demand for sustainability and caregiving; neglecting this triggers crises. Extreme nationalism under Ceres’s influence prioritizes the nation over universal human values, leading to exploitation or destruction (e.g., plundering occupied territories).
Nazi Example: Odilo Globocnik (Operation Reinhard, April 21, 1904) oversaw extermination camps, neglecting human nurturing for a distorted national ideal. A prominent Ceres in Capricorn might symbolize rigid, authoritarian “care” for the regime’s goals, causing mass destruction.
Mechanism: Ceres in angular houses or afflicted by Saturn could reflect a cold, calculated neglect of broader humanity.

Emotional Extremes

Fueling Nationalism:

Description: Kientz links Ceres to emotional highs and lows, with depression or volatility when nurturing needs are unmet. In nationalism, this can manifest as fanatical devotion to the nation, driven by emotional distress or perceived threats.
Nazi Example: Roland Freisler (Volksgerichtshof judge, October 30, 1893) sentenced thousands with fanatical zeal, possibly reflecting Ceres in Aries (aggressive nurturing) squared by Saturn...

It's more common than not for a planet to be peregrine, so no need to be alarmed! In interpreting peregrine planets, the condition of their ruler (by sign, house, and aspect) is also important, and seeing the aspect they make to their ruler, if any. (An aspect to their ruler is a condition known as 'reception', and improves the condition of a peregrine planet (or one in their fall or detriment). So your husband's Scorpio planets, for example, would all be received by a very strong Mars, who is thought to help them out, as if they are guests in his home!)

To find the ruler of the hour, you first need to find the length of the day (and night) in the place he was born on that day. Divide that into 12 equal hours during the day, and 12 more equal hours during the night.

The ruler of the day rules the first hour after sunrise (these are planetary hours, so they probably won't be 60 minutes long, unless he was born close to the equinox or in the tropics.) The Sun's day is Sunday, the Moon's day is Monday, Mars's day is Tuesday, Mercury's day is Wednesday, Jupiter's day is Thursday, Venus's day is Friday, and Saturn's day is Saturday.

From there, count the hours in descending Chaldean order until you arrive at the hour in which your husband was born: Saturn > Jupiter > Mars > Sun > Venus > Mercury > Moon, and back around to Saturn.

It can be calculated by hand, of course, but the far easier way is to find an online calculator and input your data there. I quite like https://planetaryhours.net/.

5

omg THANK YOU for the link help me with the planetary hour. And I have a question Sir.

His Venus in Aquarius in 8th house, got Square both by his Scorpio Mars in 5th and Scorpio Saturn in 5th, and Scorpio Pluto in 5th. You know 5th house TRINE 1st house Ascendant. And 8th house is Aversion to Ascendant. Basically that Venus in 8th is not in a better position, both by house and by sign. And that Venus is in Mars bound/term too.

So Venus has to perform under Mars bound. His Sun, Mercury also in Mars bound, so has to perform under Mars too. The degrees of the planet in what bound/term is very important in Hellenistic.

But Venus Aquarius is a fixed sign though (just as fixed as the sign Scorpio), so that Venus is not weak, it just she got square by all his Scorpio planets whom in a better house than her (and Mars in his own sign and own house), while she not have that luxury. And she being in Mars bound is ugh.. not so good.

It said Venus is Peregrine.

But here is what I don't get. You see his IC is Libra (rule by Venus), his MC is Aries (rule by Mars), and his Mars is in Scorpio which is domicile. And MC (where your actions is) has a bigger say in a chart than IC (family house under the horizon).

However his Venus is in Aquarius, so with IC in Libra, his Venus has domicile, and his Saturn has exalted. So I don't get why that Venus is peregrine, she has domicile in the IC in Libra right? And Saturn has the exalted in the IC in Libra right?

I'm confuse.

eta: I plug in his birthday in that calculator, he born on a Saturday, and by his birth time, that natal Scorpio Saturn is his planetary hour. This is bad right? lol. His Mars in Scorpio though, I don't know if Saturn is happy to be in that sign, Saturn HATE Mars. And his Saturn is Retrograde too, while his Mars spin Direct.

Ruler of Day: Saturn

Ruler of Hour: Saturn

That the result it give when I plug in his birthday and birth time and birth place.

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20 hr. ago
You're most welcome, I'm glad it helped!

So his Venus would be received by her domicile lord, Saturn, and her bound lord, Mars, which would improve her condition a little bit - even though it is a square, it is better than being in aversion to them.

That's all very technical, but in my lived experience, reception via hard aspects presents a challenge which, through overcoming it, helps the planet to learn the terrain, so to speak. Or, think of it as Venus being able to call upon those planets for help, and even though they may be grumpy about it, they'll have answers for her, though she may not like them.

As for the Midheaven and IC: the essential dignity of a planet (essential dignity means whether they are domicile, exalted, peregrine, fallen, etc.) is determined based upon the position of that planet in the chart. So, his Venus is in Aquarius, and in Mars's bound, so she has no essential dignity but no essential debility either (i.e. not fallen or in detriment). The position of the IC is not taken into account in determining her condition, because it's JUST about where the planet is in the chart - although she is indeed the domicile lord of the IC.

(If she is within a 3 degree orb of trining the IC/sextiling the MC, this is another mitigating condition for her placement in the 8th House! Vice versa, too - planets in challenging houses that have a trine to the MC/sextile to the IC also fare better than those that do not.)

Saturn in Scorpio is peregrine unless he is in his own bound. Because his Mars is in Scorpio as well, he is received by Mars, via conjunction/copresence. When I think of this, I think of having a highly competent and strategic sergeant (Mars) for Saturn to take his cues from, and Mars, in turn, having a seasoned and restrained advisor. (I wouldn't personally say Saturn hates Mars - Mars exalts in Saturn's sign, after all - and he may not like Aries, Mars's other domicile, but he struggles far less in Scorpio.)

As an aside, I (and many others) have found essential dignity to matter far less in natal charts than in, say, elections or transits, because human beings have free will and the ability to learn and grow from our experiences and challenges. The energy is the energy, but you can still decide how to react to it, and do things like remediation, etc. But none of what you've said seems really bad to me!

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1 day ago
I don't belive term of peregrins. Or exalted... Thing about it. Messi has a mars in cancer. It is the worst placement for a man right? Noo he is one of the best footbal player of all. No one can controll ball like him. Speed athletics every martian energy he has...

Interpretations for everyday life
Sun: Beneficial for those pursuits which are aimed at gaining influence in society, fame, high prestige, as also for gaining confidence and self-reliance. Good time for applying to superiors or any important people, for example to talk about a career advancement. It is also an appropriate time to advertise, to make a presentation, to speak to a big audience.

Venus: Good time for any meetings and acquaintances, but especially for dating or asking someone out. Beneficial hour for amusements, entertainment, having a party, going to a cinema or theater, to buy fashionable clothes or jewelry. Mutual sympathy between people is enhanced, which helps to find a compromise, to restore a broken relationship. Artists, painters, musicians can feel an inspiration in this hour.

Mercury: Beneficial time for any intellectual activity, including study, teaching, research, taking exams, as also everything connected to receiving transferring or using any kind of information. Mercury enhances dexterity and resourcefulness, patronizes traders, but also thievs. Good time to start a short trip, to write a letter or report, to program, to chat, to send mail.

Moon: Beneficial time for cooking, having a meal, and also for washing, cleaning and other household chores. Good time for dealing with women, family meetings, nursing babies. Activities which were started in the Moon Hour will be prone to changes, dependent on peoples moods and emotions, so it is generally not advised to start anything of importance at this time.

Saturn: It is the time for those occupations and beginnings which require significant time, patience, concentration and perseverance, as also everything related to land and immovable property. It is not advised to start a journey at this time or to borrow money as in both cases delays and disappointments may spoil the matter. Good time to ask an advice of the elders, to cool down passions, to have a sober glance on the state of the matters, to get rid of a bad habit.

Jupiter: Beneficial hour for most affairs, especially those which promote richness, success and prosperity. Jupiter helps to accelerate development, widen the horizon, increase the level of understanding. Good time for social meetings, applying for benefits, sponsorship, dealing with rich, influential people, for the start of a journey, philosophical discussions and religious ceremonies.

Mars: The time for increased activity, for those pursuits which require determination, courage, physical efforts, for sport, for work with fire or sharp instruments. Sexuality is enhanced, but also the probability of a conflict is higher than usual. The good hour to attack enemies or to challenge competitors.

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Saturn Hours: Discipline and patience; giving up bad habits; overcoming obstacles; success with difficult tasks or difficult people; projects of long duration – breaking ground, laying foundations; planting perennials; treating chronic illness; making repairs; seeking favors from older people (not relatives) or difficult people.

Jupiter Hours: Wisdom, optimism; money (borrowing / lending/ investing / earning / winning); activities necessitating enthusiasm; buying lottery tickets; seeking advice / consultation; settling disputes; seeking favors from grandparents, aunts and uncles, advisers (doctors, lawyers, accountants, astrologers).

Mars Hours: Courage, adventure; enforcing your will; success with drastic action (lawsuits, conflicts, going to war, surgery); sports, exercises; risk-taking; making complaints; firing employees; seeking favors of husband or boyfriend.

Sun Hours: General success and recognition; spiritual illumination; decisiveness, vitality; activities requiring courage or a mood of self-certainty – making big decisions, scheduling meetings for reaching decisions, giving speeches, launching new projects; seeking favors from father, husband, boss, authorities.

Venus Hours: Love; friendship; artistic and social success; enjoyable, sociable and aesthetic activities such as parties, social gatherings, recitals / exhibitions, weddings, visits, dating and seeking romance; planting ornamentals; buying gifts, clothing, luxuries; beauty treatments; seeking favors from women.

Mercury Hours: Success in studies / communications; children; making a good impression; routine activities and activities needing clear communications; teaching / learning; important business letters / phone calls; meetings to develop or communicate ideas; buying / selling; routine shopping, errands, travel; job applications / interviews; seeking favors from neighbors, co-workers.

Moon Hours: Health; home (buying home, moving); journeys / vacationing (time of leaving home or takeoff); activities remote in time or space – meditation, making reservations, finding lost objects or people; planting food crops; hiring employees; seeking favors from mother, wife, employees.