![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
MERCURY/SATURN & FIXED STARS
Dec. 2nd, 2025 12:15 pmA high concern for accuracy (especially with harmonious aspects)
⭐ But why do some astrologers mention dishonesty?
If dishonesty shows up with Mercury/Saturn, it’s usually the shadow side—not shameless lying, but things like:
Withholding information out of fear
Defensive half-truths
Guilt-driven secrecy
Rigid narratives they can’t deviate from
Lying to avoid consequences or judgment
Saturn’s influence is shame, accountability, and fear.
So lying under Saturn is more like “I don’t want to get in trouble”, not “I have no shame.”
⭐ Indicators of shameless lying look more like…
If you’re looking for shameless, bold, or compulsive lying, you usually see combinations like:
Mercury–Neptune (illusion, evasion, fantasy, deception)
Mercury–Jupiter (exaggeration, bravado)
Fire Mercury + harsh Mars aspects (impulsive speech)
Gemini/Sagittarius shadow expressions (storytelling or embellishment)
These are more “lie for effect / lie for fun / lie to impress” signatures.
⭐ Conclusion
Mercury/Saturn aspects do not correlate with shameless lying.
If dishonesty occurs, it’s usually fear-, shame-, or avoidance-based, not bold or brazen deception.
If you want, you can share the specific aspect or chart context — the sign, houses, and other planetary links massively change the interpretation.
You said:
in vivian robsons fixed stars traditionally mercury/saturn is about lying and bad.
ChatGPT said:
Vivian Robson absolutely does mention “lying,” “evil disposition,” or “maliciousness” when Mercury and Saturn are tied to certain fixed stars. But the key is:
👉 It’s not the Mercury/Saturn aspect itself —
It’s the combination of Mercury + Saturn + a specific fixed star with a harsh reputation.
Robson’s The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology works like this:
⭐ When Mercury + Saturn are together on a malefic fixed star
He often interprets the star as amplifying:
craftiness
misrepresentation
melancholy
malicious intent
“liars,” “thieves,” “treacherous,” etc.
But the source of the “lying” isn’t Mercury/Saturn alone — it’s the nature of the star (e.g., Algol, Vindemiatrix, Facies, Scheat, Capulus, Aculeus, etc.).
Mercury = the mind + words
Saturn = restriction, fear, coldness, depression
Malefic star = amplifies its darker symbolism
Put together: “twisted, fearful, or harmful communication.”
This can express as lying, spite, gossip, or harmful speech.
⭐ Why Robson sounds harsh
Robson was writing in the early 20th century using traditional, fatalistic astrology.
Fixed star delineations from that era were:
excessively negative
literal
morally loaded
based on medieval/renaissance sources
not interpreted psychologically
So “liar” often simply meant:
“Malefic influence on Mercury = communication problems that harm others.”
⭐ Modern interpretation
Today we reinterpret Robson’s statements psychologically:
Mercury + Saturn + malefic star →
communication rooted in fear, shame, or bitterness,
sometimes manifesting as deception or distrust.
But this is situational, not a blanket statement about Mercury/Saturn aspects.
⭐ Why Mercury–Saturn alone ≠ shameless lying
Even in traditional astrology, Saturn is about fear, guilt, consequences. Rachel Reeves 29/11/25 - 1066 27 leo
Shameless lying aligns more with:
Mercury + Neptune (illusion)
Mercury + Jupiter (exaggeration)
Mercury + Mars (manipulative or aggressive rhetoric)
Saturn tends to inhibit, not embellish.
=============================================
Robson’s delineations vary massively depending on the specific fixed star and whether it’s on Mercury, Saturn, or both. If you share:
the star
the orb
and which planet it’s on
I can translate Robson’s old-school wording into a modern, accurate interpretation.
⭐ But why do some astrologers mention dishonesty?
If dishonesty shows up with Mercury/Saturn, it’s usually the shadow side—not shameless lying, but things like:
Withholding information out of fear
Defensive half-truths
Guilt-driven secrecy
Rigid narratives they can’t deviate from
Lying to avoid consequences or judgment
Saturn’s influence is shame, accountability, and fear.
So lying under Saturn is more like “I don’t want to get in trouble”, not “I have no shame.”
⭐ Indicators of shameless lying look more like…
If you’re looking for shameless, bold, or compulsive lying, you usually see combinations like:
Mercury–Neptune (illusion, evasion, fantasy, deception)
Mercury–Jupiter (exaggeration, bravado)
Fire Mercury + harsh Mars aspects (impulsive speech)
Gemini/Sagittarius shadow expressions (storytelling or embellishment)
These are more “lie for effect / lie for fun / lie to impress” signatures.
⭐ Conclusion
Mercury/Saturn aspects do not correlate with shameless lying.
If dishonesty occurs, it’s usually fear-, shame-, or avoidance-based, not bold or brazen deception.
If you want, you can share the specific aspect or chart context — the sign, houses, and other planetary links massively change the interpretation.
You said:
in vivian robsons fixed stars traditionally mercury/saturn is about lying and bad.
ChatGPT said:
Vivian Robson absolutely does mention “lying,” “evil disposition,” or “maliciousness” when Mercury and Saturn are tied to certain fixed stars. But the key is:
👉 It’s not the Mercury/Saturn aspect itself —
It’s the combination of Mercury + Saturn + a specific fixed star with a harsh reputation.
Robson’s The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology works like this:
⭐ When Mercury + Saturn are together on a malefic fixed star
He often interprets the star as amplifying:
craftiness
misrepresentation
melancholy
malicious intent
“liars,” “thieves,” “treacherous,” etc.
But the source of the “lying” isn’t Mercury/Saturn alone — it’s the nature of the star (e.g., Algol, Vindemiatrix, Facies, Scheat, Capulus, Aculeus, etc.).
Mercury = the mind + words
Saturn = restriction, fear, coldness, depression
Malefic star = amplifies its darker symbolism
Put together: “twisted, fearful, or harmful communication.”
This can express as lying, spite, gossip, or harmful speech.
⭐ Why Robson sounds harsh
Robson was writing in the early 20th century using traditional, fatalistic astrology.
Fixed star delineations from that era were:
excessively negative
literal
morally loaded
based on medieval/renaissance sources
not interpreted psychologically
So “liar” often simply meant:
“Malefic influence on Mercury = communication problems that harm others.”
⭐ Modern interpretation
Today we reinterpret Robson’s statements psychologically:
Mercury + Saturn + malefic star →
communication rooted in fear, shame, or bitterness,
sometimes manifesting as deception or distrust.
But this is situational, not a blanket statement about Mercury/Saturn aspects.
⭐ Why Mercury–Saturn alone ≠ shameless lying
Even in traditional astrology, Saturn is about fear, guilt, consequences. Rachel Reeves 29/11/25 - 1066 27 leo
Shameless lying aligns more with:
Mercury + Neptune (illusion)
Mercury + Jupiter (exaggeration)
Mercury + Mars (manipulative or aggressive rhetoric)
Saturn tends to inhibit, not embellish.
=============================================
Robson’s delineations vary massively depending on the specific fixed star and whether it’s on Mercury, Saturn, or both. If you share:
the star
the orb
and which planet it’s on
I can translate Robson’s old-school wording into a modern, accurate interpretation.
